This is a rehearsal space that became your recording space?
Yeah, we have a rehearsal space about a mile down the road and we took it from there. After The Delgados split up I kind of decided this is what I was going to do — this is the only thing I could do apart from play drums! [laughter] We wanted to make more of the other place, but the landlord kept on trying to sell to developers and he wouldn't renew our lease. There was no point in spending the money and time soundproofing rooms. At least I know this landlord probably won't kick me out.
Since it's your dad! [laughter]
We have a long history. He knows what it's all worth because he's a partner in the business as well. He's not screwing us for money at all, but he's not cutting any deals. We get a bonus that we can build and do things to the property. A lot of people think we don't have to pay rent!
So, he was running his transistor business in here before?
He would get and sell machines to build semiconductor microchips. He'd export all over the world. This used to be an office — we got almost a blank canvas. The original building wasn't designed in any way to be a studio. The old place was dark and had loads of character — lots of weird things on the wall. Now I have to start again. Over the years, as we develop it will get messy and it will grow, hopefully. The rooms are getting in shape a bit more — I need some bass trapping.
So you were stuck with these because they're brick, permanent walls?
Yeah. These are all warehouse workshops. The offices used to be in the front and the workshops in the back. I think it was metal work of some sort. There's a weird, hollowed out room in the back where people threw junk. It actually may have been a car mechanic's at one point. I wanted windows and then had to deal with working out the soundproofing problems.
Where it goes to the outside, you've got two sets of double-paned windows?
Yep. I had the layout right, at least in my head. I wanted a big live room. I wanted a reasonable control room, but I really didn't know how to build it properly. I got Calum Maclean, who was already the main builder of the whole project. He used to be an engineer and was responsible for a lot of the dance-based music that came out of Glasgow in the last decade. He completely gave that up and started doing studio builds. I bought our desk [66-channel Amek Einstein] from him years ago. When I got the money he said, "The plans seem fine, but the specs are all wrong. This is how you actually build it." He told us what to change and it basically doubled the cost. He told us we needed two ceilings and all this stuff we had done wrong.
Is that to prevent sound leakage?
Yeah. And he brought on two other guys, Rat and Ted, who are musicians. So, everybody who worked on the project was either a musician or an engineer and it really made a difference. We had all worked in studios. It was a really good atmosphere — the building of it worked out really well. There were all these things I didn't know — none of the walls can touch each other and that sort of thing. We were lucky. It really was done on the cheap, but it doesn't really look like it's been done on the cheap. Calum really helped make it work.
When was your first session in here?
The first session was for Emma's album, Watch the Fireworks. That was kind of frightening because Victor Van Vugt was producing it, and with all the albums he's done and all the studios he's been in, I was just kind of stressed. He was really okay with everything and it was fine. [laughter] The place wasn't finished. It wasn't anything near what it is now.
That's the way things go.
The lines were in, the desk was working. The first week was a disaster. The [Macintosh] G5 completely fucked up — just another reason why I can't stand computers. I can't fix computers when they break.
The studio came about at the end of The Delgados, but there's still the band's label going [Chemikal Underground Records].
I've flitted in and out of being an engineer and being a label. We still all run the label...
Everyone who was in the band?
Yeah, the four of us. We started it in 1995. The rest of them are in the office a lot more than I am because I'm here most of the time.
How did you end up engineering?
I took a course in audio engineering in Glasgow in 1993. I went to a local studio, which is a mile down the road. I asked that guy for a job and he said, "No, we've got an engineer. But you can sit in on some sessions." I said, "That would be great, but if anything comes up, let me know." He called me the next week and said, "Actually, you've got the job because the guy who was the engineer has left." [laughter] So, that was my big break! It was a really, really small set up — a 16-track Fostex 1/2" machine, Allen & Heath 16-channel desk and no mics of any note.
You've got to work harder to make it good.
Yeah, I work on sessions now and I hear, "You've got to have this piece of gear" and I remember what it was like working on albums then. I really wouldn't have wanted to know that this gear was there. Now I can recognize if something's got a higher quality, but you know the end product really doesn't matter if you've done the right things.
How long did you work in that studio space?
I was the main engineer there from 1993 to when the band started touring and stuff. We started the label just after I was working there in 1994 or '95. '95 is when we released the first Delgados single. We thought we'd try it out on ourselves first and see how it goes. So, I was doing recordings for us. Then the label took off and we started working with other bands. I started being the main engineer for the Chemikal Underground stuff. I had to kind of give it up because the band was getting too busy — I would just do it when I was back home. The studio got some other engineers and I was sharing the work time with them when I was around. In 1997 my boss said, "I don't want to do this anymore." I spoke to the rest of the label and said, "Look, we use this studio to record. We use this studio to rehearse. The bands use the studio." We recorded Mogwai's first album, Arab Strap's first album and our first album there. We said, "Okay, let's buy it." We just took it over. It's now moved a couple of times and it's now here. It used to be called MCM. To be honest, the other studio was really dying. It was so fucked up. There were too many compromises. I was engineering my own band and it was really, really tough. We'd worked with Tony [Doogan] on a BBC session for John Peel. We'd got on with Tony, so we thought, "We'll give that guy a call." We went to Ca Va Sound for the next one.
. . .which sounds like a much fancier studio than where you were.
It was completely different. Chem19 was just taking tiny steps to get better and better. It got to 2000, when we'd done the last album — we said to Tony, "Look, we don't want to spend tens of thousands on a studio like we usually do. We just want to do it at our own place." By then we'd gotten some good stuff. We'd gotten the desk and we'd gotten some other bits and pieces that we felt were compatible. We said, "What do we need to do to make you come out here and record it here?" And he said, "Well, you need an HD system and you could use a good preamp and get your Neumann serviced." [laughter] It kind of came down to what he wanted. I like now to say that you don't have to go elsewhere. This place should be everything you need.
How many bands are on Chemikal Underground right now?
We're in the process of talking to a few, so I don't really know who's signed. We just put out the Radar Brothers. We're doing Aidan Moffat's next record, a new band called The Phantom Band and De Rosa are gonna do their second record.
If you're working on an album that's on the label, how do you work the economics of that?
Well, we just pay — because it's two separate businesses. We view it as the band takes what modest recording budget we would give them and we would use that to pay Chem19 for the studio time. Obviously we give them the best deal we can give them. [laughter] I think for the bands it's actually quite a good deal and for Chemikal Underground it's quite a good deal. For Chem19 most of the time it's a bloody good deal and its flexible, but it can be hard to juggle the fact that I'm kind of more involved with the studio side of things. When I'm talking to Stewart [Henderson], who's much more in control of the financial side of the label, we do have some sort of discussions about money that they can be, not at all heated, but difficult to make fair. Like, "The budget's only this much, but we need six weeks of studio time." Normally you would only get two or three weeks. [laughter] We can make a compromise and do stuff on down time. Everyone benefits. It's good for us as a label to give our studio what it needs. It's good for the studio to have albums that come out. We always want to keep on producing records. It's the calling card for the studio.
Sometimes you see someone pouring a bunch of money into a studio, but then they're waiting for the bands to come. But when you've got a symbiotic relationship...
It works really well. Certainly in the first couple years of this place, there were a couple of crucial albums that gave us kind of a set amount of work to do and we could say, "Well, at least we've got that." And then until it gets really busy, we can afford to take a lot of time on it and give a fantastic deal.
You didn't give Emma any deals on her solo record, did you? [laughter]
Oh, she got a good deal. She was on 4AD but they still got a deal. It's hard. I don't know if you find this as a studio owner, but no matter what way someone approaches you, there's always a justification for the deal. It could be a big record company saying, "If we give this record to you we'd really like a deal because you could get more." Or, "This album could do well and it could do well for your studio." Everyone wants a deal. And then there's the band that can only afford a couple of days. I really shouldn't be saying this — but it's very rare to not cut deals.
We say, "The more time you book, the cheaper the day rate." If they fill our calendar then my studio manager has less things she has to deal with.
Oh, totally! The longer bookings are a lot of security for me. When I look at that, I think, "Fuck, we'll make it for another three months." [laughter]
It's been almost 2 1/2 years in the new building. Have you had a good amount of business happening?
It's been pretty good. Word of mouth has gone around Glasgow. A couple of key bands have been in that have really helped. The Twilight Sad came in and did their first album. They seem to be doing really well — it's just a great record. It's one of those ones that we talked about where I was only involved in the recording. They went over to the U.S. and did some mixing with Peter Katis. I'm not sure if you've heard of King Creosote in the States, but their last album Bombshell, a lot of it was recorded here. It was a great project to get involved with. There are so many others — Malcolm Middleton's album, Camera Obscura — they did bits and pieces. Franz Ferdinand has done some b- sides, and that's how I ended up doing their album [Tonight: Franz Ferdinand] at their place. I've been engineering on that. I haven't been in here as much.
What kind of space do they have?
