Hillary first came to Tape Op's attention when she e-mailed us, from New York, with some hot "snapple-micing" tips (see the letters in issue #3). I was impressed with her rockin' producer/engineer rÈsumÈ which included the Ramones, the Godrays, Murphy's Law, Tribe 8, L.E.S. Stitches, Spook Engine, and more. We managed to meet up face-to-face for an interview at the palatial Tape Op digs while she was in Portland visiting for the holidays.
So how did you get started in recording? Were you in a band?
I've never played music. I've always just listened to music. When I was in grade school I wanted to take up trombone lessons and the teacher said, "Your arms aren't long enough." I know now that it's more like, "Your a girl, you can't do that." I was kinda discouraged. I just loved music and when I was in college I was studying communications and I took a sound production class, like razor editing and that kinda stuff, and I read chapter one of the book about what a producer is and I thought, "This is what I want to do."
Did you study all that stuff at school?
Not in college. I got a degree which was more production orientated and I did a lot of video. After I graduated college I took a short 8 week basic course on the theory of recording. It wasn't even that technical. It was more like there are these steps in recording and this is how it's done. I was living in Maryland and I got a chance to run a studio in New York, turn it into a business, and learn engineering at the same time. I just jumped at it 'cause I wasn't doing anything exciting in Maryland.
How did you end up with the chance to do this?
Friends of mine had recorded at the studio [Spa], where I'm working now, and the guy who was the assistant engineer at the time ended up clicking with the band and they needed a soundman--so they took him. The studio owner, who was friends with the band's manager, said, "If you take him you need to give me somebody." The manager knew that I wanted to get into recording and said, "Well, go up for six weeks." It ended up being more than six weeks.
How long have you been there now?
Three and a half years. After I was there for six months I started engineering--just small bands. The studio is a small 24 track; a midsize studio for Manhattan. It's pretty much a word-of-mouth kind of place. I was doing real assisting--answering phones, making coffee, emptying the trash and also setting up mics; all the stuff an assistant does
At the same time I was running the studio: learning about where to buy equipment, if something breaks--who to call.
So they gradually eased you in to recording.
It was just me and the owner and one engineer but he wasn't involved in the business aspect. I pretty much taught myself all the aspects of the business of recording.
What was the first session you recorded?
A lot of the times there's a crossover, when you're still assisting, of when you're assisting and when you're actually engineering. "You want me to get the sound? I'm just the assistant." It might have actually been D-Generation. They just came in to do one song for a demo. They're a big, New York based rock band. They opened for Kiss! I pretty much just started engineering--not really working with a separate producer but working with the band, just giving them suggestions--not even really co-producing. I just worked with a lot of New York local bands that I liked. "Come in and record. I'll get you a good rate on the studio and I'll do it for free."
You were coaxing people that you knew or had seen.
A lot of the bands hadn't recorded before; or if they had it was just 4 track stuff. I thought, "This will be great for them. They'd be able to learn what all these other bands are doing out there." It was a way for me to get more experience doing it. We'd go in, off-hours, late at night or in between two lockout sessions or something.
For cheap.
Has the studio always had a 24 track there? I assume it's a 2" Studer.
Yeah. We also have an 8 track digital (Roland DM-80).
Hard drive?
Yeah, the Spook Engine record was done on that. An experiment on how to make 8 tracks work. A couple of songs were done on the multitrack and then were bounced.
Was that a neat experience?
That was a very long process. That record took 3 or 4 months to make. I'm used to doing a 4 song demo of a band in two days. It might sound like a long time to some people who think, "We can just go to the studio and record and be done in four hours."
They're usually kidding themselves. You did some stuff with the Ramones?
Daniel Rey is the producer. He's done the Ramones' records for the past zillion years and he produced the last Murphy's Law record. I think he first came to the studio to do a couple of 7" singles with Murphy's Law. He usually just uses the engineer at the studio where he is working. So I worked with him and he liked the studio and he liked working with me. We did the Murphy's Law record, which is supposed to be the big comeback record, and then he came back and we did some stuff with the Ramones. We did one song for one record that was a live compilation record but there was a couple of studio tracks. Then we did basic tracks for a Dee Dee Ramone record that I think still has to be mixed, I'm not sure. I like working with Daniel. He's a great producer. He gets the band in such a good mood.
Do you feel like you learn a lot, watching someone like that working?
I learn a lot, production wise. I get more confidence engineering wise 'cause he's the kind of producer who'll be out in the lounge or the hallway when you're getting sounds. He'll come in and say, "Great, cool." The same with mixing. He'll say, "Okay, do your thing" and he'll leave.
Was there a period where you didn't feel quite knowledgeable about recording?
I always thought, "I'm never gonna figure out this EQ thing." I actually spend a lot of time now teaching friends of mine the basics of recording. It's a lot of females--a lot of girlfriends will come and say, "I'm interested in this. Can you teach me?" It's something you'll learn; you'll figure it out. Every day I still learn from people. A band will come in and they might have their own producer. There's two assistant engineers that work for me and if neither of them are available then I'll assist. I'll be able to step back--it's really hard though--and see how someone else is doing this a little different. I pretty much learned from just two or three people. The first studio I went to, outside of Spa, was when I did the Godrays' demo. We went to a 16 track studio. That was a great experience 'cause I didn't have to worry about answering the phone or if somebody was gonna call about scheduling.
Did you find that you were pretty familiar with everything there too?
Oh yeah. It was actually good 'cause there's a lot of things that I found I took for granted. I knew which buttons had to be pushed but I wasn't really reading that this was doing this. Maybe on a gate, I knew if I turned it to 10 O' clock it would give me that specific effect. If they had different gates at this other studio I would actually have to think about it.
It might even help you rethink what you were doing back at Spa. There's not very many women doing engineering. Did you ever encounter anything weird about that?
I always knew that most engineers were men. When I was taking the short recording class there were a couple of girls in there that seemed to be technically orientated and that just gave me confidence. When I started working at the studio there weren't any other female engineers but I didn't get any slack for it. It was never like, "Oh, you're an engineer?" I think that never was an issue. I worked with this artist once who said, "I think you're really great and do a great job." She would be interviewed in a magazine and she would say, "Hillary's the best female producer..." Don't do that! I don't want to get pigeonholed! I do what I do... it doesn't really matter that I'm a girl.
It shouldn't be a matter of consideration.
There was a point where I thought, "There's a lot of female artists out there that are afraid to get their songs out there." I wanted to get them all. I wanted to work with all these female bands. Then I was like, "Who am I kidding?" There's guy bands that are just as good that have just as much potential that I would want to work with. It was just a stupid thing to think.
But on the other hand it's good for people to see a female working as an engineer/producer.
When I first started engineering, with pretty much every band (whether they were male or female) somebody would say to me, "How did you get into this?" It got to the point where I got tired of telling the story. Now, the bands that come to work with me have come from word-of-mouth. It's not even an issue anymore.
Do you find that word-of-mouth works well?
When I first started running the studio we took out an ad in the Village Voice. It was a really dumb ad. We didn't have a clientele; we didn't have anything. We just got the worst calls. I didn't know. We got ripped off and stuff. But now we're advertising--we have a clientele--I have a clientele.
Was it pretty new when you first started working there?
Well, physically it was 2 1/2 years old but it wasn't a business; it was just a hobby studio.
So you kind of took it from there...
The owner and I are kind of like partners; even though he's definitely the owner. He's trying to get involved more, now, in the business aspect of it. I understand the whole point of the studio--which is important. It's weird, 'cause a lot of times bands will come in and I'll want to work with them and they'll have their own engineer. "No! Work with me!"
Do they bring them in for a certain reason?
Usually when that happens the engineer's also the producer. It's a combo deal. They've either worked with them before or they're trying this person out. That's happened a few times. At least I get to see the qualities they're looking for in a producer or an engineer. I get a feel for other kind of people that are out there. There's some mean people out there.
What?
I've come across a couple of producers that treat singers really badly, without realizing it. They don't give them any confidence and end up getting a really bad take and don't know why. I've come across producers that are just the opposite that are just like cheerleaders and they keep the people happy and they get a really good take. They're not really worried about the technical aspects.
What do you think causes a producer to treat the musicians that badly?
Arrogance. They get to a point where they think, "They're listening to me." They get a little cocky, "I know what I'm talking about."
What things help to make a comfortable session?
Usually the people I work with I like as people. I try and make them feel comfortable as people. And make sure and tell them what we're gonna do ahead of time. Get them involved. If they haven't recorded expalin how it works. If they have, and I'm just hired help, I might ask the singer, "What kind of mics have you used before?" Just get them involved in the whole process. We have a carpet in the studio that, if it's rolled up, the room's live. That's the first thing I say. "What are you looking for?" I'll ask the drummer. Than I'll ask the band what they're looking for. Just so I know how to mic everything. Then, get the sounds, put it on tape, and have them come in and listen. It's important that everything on tape is really close to what they want. Thay'll be, "Don't worry about that; We'll fix it in the mix." I don't like that! You never know who's gonna be mixing it.
Have you had that happen?
I've had to mix stuff that other people recorded and usually you end up crticizing something. You're like, "What did they...?" I feel so bad...
Someone could be doing that to you.
