How did you get started recording music at home?
I got my first tape recorder when I was about 10 years old. My grandfather had a discount store, and he gave me a tiny reel to reel with 3" reels. I took it home and figured out a way to clip the mic onto my guitar and started recording. It didn't have a capstan, so it would run at its own speed... I later got a Sony two track that you could overdub on. I was always into recording live stuff. Somewhere in this house there's a box of reels from all these concerts I went to at the Fillmore, audience recordings. Later on I got a Magnacorder that's a great field recorder. It's a 1/4" half track in two pieces, with a stereo preamp, like the Ampex preamps over there, [points to a stack of Ampex 350 mic pres in the corner] that separates from the recorder. Every band I was in, I'd always be the guy that wanted to do the demo.
At what point did it feel like you could make your own records?
Well, it still doesn't seem like I can make my own records [laughs], but I somehow pull it off. It never feels like I'm in a studio really. It never feels like I'm doing it right.
Was it always trial and error, or did anyone ever show you how to do stuff?
Always trial and error, and listening to other people's records and saying, "Why can't I make it sound like that!"
Well, that's what I say when I listen to your records!
It seems like with everything I do, it's new to me. Because I tour with Emmylou [Harris], and all the other things I do — writing, my own gigs, touring with Julie, producing other people — by the time it comes to making a record, I haven't done it in so long and I end up saying, "How do I do this again?" I know how the gear works, but it always feels sort of new. Which is kind of cool.
Can you describe the setup in your house?
Well the house was built in 1904. It has been divided and undivided a bunch of times. When we got it I think it was a triplex. We live upstairs and record downstairs. The studio is basically three rooms. The living room, which is really a pretend living room which we don't really live in, is where we set up drums. It's small, but I like to record with as few people as possible anyway, which is different for Nashville, where they often like to get the whole track at once.
Does it always begin with an ensemble, or do you ever build a track with overdubs?
It usually begins with a small ensemble. Bass, drums, guitar, and sometimes one other element. The voice and the song are the focus and I don't like anything to get in the way, clutter, or overpower the song.... just frame it. The fewer instruments I track with, the better I can hear what else is needed. I try not to do too much overdubbing, but I plan for having to do some. I know when the basic track goes down, there's something about playing together that you can't get with an overdub. Even with my playing, there will be mistakes and slop, and sometimes the sound isn't perfect, but it really gels together so much better. On the other hand, a lot of times, Julie and I are making records in between other things going on. I have been touring with Emmylou for six years, and it takes some planning ahead to make a record. I took the summer off from a tour so I could get some things done. However, I wasn't planning on doing this record until a few weeks ago. I realized that if I wanted a record out this year, now was the time to do it. We didn't have the songs written, but we had pieces of songs. I could record the music and finish the songs later, when I heard what the tracks were saying. And Julie is great with that, she is a great writer. So we'll record the tracks, and it may not be building with overdubs, but I might scrap the track and build a new song around the drums, or a piece of the drums. That's the cool thing about Pro Tools. I had a 2" machine when I moved into the house, it was a Studer A-80. It had a third party remote that was never quite right. I would press the stop button and it would fly across the room, the counter wouldn't work, and the fan was loud. I liked how it sounded and I liked how it smelled, but I couldn't talk over the fan. It just wasn't practical for what we were doing. So, I switched over to Pro Tools pretty early on. And I think it sounds fine, especially with the latest HD upgrade. And some of the plug-ins even sound good. Plus, I was always cutting the tape at the wrong head.
So you are not afraid to be a digital editor.
Oh gosh, no! It's great.
Most people's sonic complaints with digital recording aren't apparent on your records. How do you accomplish that?
I don't know. It's still a little tough for me. I like the sound of it okay, especially now. But it's as though every track is separated from every other track. It's harder to get it to stir together. That's the hardest thing for me, when it comes to mixing. Everything is good when it's going down. You press playback after you cut a track and that's what it sounded like, which is great for some kinds of music, but with some of the stuff I do, I don't want it to sound so pristine.
So do you give credit to the front end?
Yeah, and even though this doesn't look like it's a great room, it's got a sound to it. When you play a guitar or sing, there is a sound that's not like singing in a vocal booth. So, I listen to that sound and try to make that part of the record. I was working on one of the country songs on the record and mic'ing a steel guitar. It was Larry Campbell, who plays with Dylan. He had his steel setup in here [the control room] and his amp out in the living room. I had a Royer 121 on the amp, a little off axis, but what I ended up using was this thing [points to Neumann U47] sitting on the other side of the room, and it just sounds great fifteen feet from the amp, like a record. So, you've got to find ways to make things fit together a little bit easier. I've got an ATR 102 half-inch machine in the other room that I haven't turned on in a year, which helped tie things together, but I find I don't need it now. I now use a Crane Song HEDD, which is really pretty sounding. I have collected a lot of gear. For preamps, the [Telefunken] V76s are really nice and thick, and the Grace preamps are very true-sounding. All that Ampex stuff is great. I've got a pretty good front end. You want to get it going in. I've got a few good old mics. I've got a U47, a Sony C37A, and a Neumann CMV563, that little lollipop mic. One of the reasons I like the CMV563 is that Julie likes to hold the mic when she records, which could make things difficult for me. Most engineers don't want the singer holding a mic, certainly not an old Neumann. But for me it's all about getting the best performance. I don't care at all if there is popping or fluctuations in tone and level, I just want the most soulful performance... whatever it takes. We did a vocal for her record when she wasn't feeling all that good, but we had to record that night. She said, "I can sing, I'm just not feeling good." So, I ran a line up to the bedroom where she was lying in bed with a fan blowing on her while she sang. It didn't matter, it was a good vocal... used on the title song on her last record, Broken Things. It's all about making the singer and players comfortable. That's why this isn't a bad environment to record in. It's cozy and it's not intimidating! Unless you're scared of sock monkeys!
When you're working with a group of musicians do you spend much time trying to get cool sounds, or do you try to get workable sounds quickly?
It seems like when I spend a lot of time getting sounds it's because I've screwed something up... something's patched wrong or is going though the wrong piece of gear. So, I don't spend a lot of time on things, other than that. One thing I end up doing with drums, because I've got a lot of mics and a lot of tracks, is over-mic. I know I shouldn't and I don't like having options. I probably won't do it next time. I over-mic things and then I don't end up using half of the tracks. On most of the drums I record I'll use the room mics, a little of the overheads, and maybe a little kick. And that's it. But I'll have all the other tracks... just in case I've screwed something up.
The drums on your records have an energy that makes them seem like they're about to explode. Is that a compression thing? The room?
First off, it's the drummer. For me, making a record is an opportunity to play with guys who I love to play with. You pay people and they come over, it's a great thing. I happen to play in a band with guys who are really great. Both in Emmylou's band with Brady Blade, who was in recording last week, and then in my band with Bryan Owings. When they come over I know what to expect. I know how they play and how their drums sound. So, the sound is mostly them. But, for mics, I use a pair of Coles in the corners of the room, kinda low, to get some of the bottom end. I have the Royer stereo mic as an overhead. I've also got this thing made by a company called THE — it's a round binaural mic. [Ed. the BS-3D sphere.]
Like the Neumann head?
Yeah, only it's made of wood. I use that for a room sound. Not only drums, but for whatever is going on in there. Another great thing about Pro Tools is that you're not paying for tape. Hard drives are so cheap. It's a great thing. I try to record everything, even if we are just talking about the song or trying an idea. I'll have a really long session for each song and then archive it. Anyway, for a kick mic, I've got an AKG D12. I put it on the outside of the head under a blanket.
So, the drum sound is mainly the Coles?
The Coles and compression.
How do you handle compression with the drums?
When I'm tracking, the Coles go through the Distressors.
With a fast release kind of thing?
Yeah, I commit, but I don't get extreme. But I definitely commit to a sound that suits each song... and I'll usually change it song to song. The overheads either go through the Pendulum 6386 or the Requisite L2M.
