I know that you went to Berklee and fell in love with the recording aspect. Had you gone there for something else?
I went because it was a music school and I was a musician, and I wanted to go anywhere that wasn't a small liberal arts college in Virginia, which is where I'm from. I was desperate to go to New York or someplace like that. A friend had told me about Berklee. It was a lot smaller then. I went, and they had a lot of different intro classes. I learned quickly that I didn't want to be a performer, but I still wanted to work in the music industry in some fashion.
Were you studying voice at that point?
Yeah. Like any conservatory, you had to do all of your harmony requirements and traditional work, and then all your instrument requirements. Then you had to pick a major. So, Introduction to Music Production and Engineering was a class that I took, and it seemed interesting. I kept taking more classes and eventually applied to the major. That's how it started. I had been singing on somebody else's project, and they took me into the studios. I was like, "What is this?" I'd never seen that before – I went in blind for sure! [laughter]
What do you think it was that fascinated you?
I think because it was still creative; it was just a different kind of creative. When I was younger, I used to like to do a lot of arranging, which feels very production-y in a sense – it's all a part of that process. I had no idea how involved any of it was. I didn't know where to plug a microphone into. I didn't know anything, but it seemed like something that would combine some of the more analytical aspects of music with the creative aspects. That’s probably what appealed to me.
The studio is always such a unique place.
Yeah, and there's nothing natural about it, which is interesting. It's all artifice, and it's a very different environment to walk into. The energy is really different. But it's fascinating. There are people that are good at recording that aren't the best live performers and vice versa, and there's a reason for that.
Was it a lot to learn?
Yes. The program was good. They started off with a lot of basics, and I like procedure. I want to go through the whole process to make sure I'm learning it exactly the way I'm supposed to. They did a lot of acoustics, audio tech, and signal flow, so that was very helpful for me. I know there were kids that had grown up with 4-tracks in their bedrooms that knew a lot more than I did. But, in theory, I was supposed to be able to walk in and learn everything I needed to learn, so that's what I did. The learning curve was steep, but it still was a good program. They did a good job at preparing us. We had Pro Tools, but all of our beginning projects were tape-based, so I didn't have to try to learn the software at the same time. I learned how to hit record and do all that, but I wasn't trying to learn all the key commands at the same time.
There are some great female instructors in that department now. Were there then?
Terry Becker was there. Robin Coxe-Skolfield had passed away a couple years prior to me getting there. I had her for a couple of classes, which was great, and then she left and came back to L.A. We reconnected when I moved to L.A. Now, they've got a number of women.
Right? Which is great!
It's nice to watch the department change. I'm actually teaching some remote learning classes for Berklee Online right now. There were ten women in my class when I was there, and now it's an even split. That's encouraging to see. It takes time whenever there's disparity. You can't snap your fingers and say, "There! Hire 50 female engineers," just because you want to hire females. I was talking to a friend of mine about this last night. It's like, even after all these years, it's still very much a boy’s club in so many ways. That probably exists in a lot of industries where executives are all men, or where there's a lot of male energy. I've had a lot of conversations with people asking, "Why do you think that is?" I have no idea. People have to get trained, get experience, and be good at it. There are a lot of factors.
And people need to see role models.
Representation is important.
But also, the access. To be able to play with [Apple] GarageBand when you're younger helps people get interested.
Accessibility. You don't ever want to hinder yourself. I have a number of students that are maybe not going to be production engineering majors, but they do want to be songwriters or musicians. It's a much more accessible skill set to have now. But to be able to record yourself and have confidence in not just how to do it, but also what's possible; I think that that's important for people to understand about recording. For the little amount of vocals that I still do, I can record myself, comp myself, and I can tune myself. It's less that somebody else has to do.
What do you teach in the Berklee classes?
I'm teaching Pro Tools. It's a little weird. I'm not a super technical person, but it's a necessary tool. It's been an interesting experience to try to figure out how to teach something as broad as Pro Tools. It's incredibly powerful, but where do I begin?
Did you get a certification for Pro Tools?
They didn't have any of that. I have no interest in doing it now. [laughter] I asked them, "Should I be certified?" I'm grateful to Berklee for bringing me on.
I learned Pro Tools by making a Sleater-Kinney record. The producer showed up with a Pro Tools rig and said, "Here's how you make a session. Here's how you make a track. Get to work."
Tracking is a good place to start, because it's a lot less involved. You just have to be able to hit record and save.
In the old days, we were treating it like a multitrack and bringing up channels on the console.
You could be a perfectly proficient operator without having to be an editor.
After school, did you make a beeline for L.A.?
I didn't want to stay in Boston. It was really cold, and I didn't want to go to New York for the same reason. It's hard to be poor in New York. I thought I needed some sunny days. Plus, they were doing music that I liked here. I didn't want to go to Nashville because I grew up in the South and I was done with all of that. I wanted to go to California because that's where they were making rock music. Terry had worked here, and she was like, "They're still working." I started calling Jeff [Greenberg, The Village Studios CEO] before I moved here.
Were you calling other studios and checking around?
I did. It was a little difficult to get a call back from anybody. The overt sexism was a lot worse then.
I think I saw a quote from you where, "We don't hire girls," was something you actually heard.
Yeah. Even then it was shocking! It's not just hard for women, but there are a bunch of kids that all want to get hired at studios. I can't imagine trying to enter this world now. I feel lucky that I got hired here. If you look around, not a whole lot of places are left, but The Village is still here. There are so many studios that have closed over the years.
Jeff had a good vision early on for how studio models should change.
Yeah. He saw the writing on the wall and was like, "Let's get some production rooms." And video shoots, live events, and parties. Before The Village, I interned briefly at a studio in Burbank called Mad Dog that's no longer there.
Dusty Wakeman's [Tape Op #120] place. I went with him to visit the studio in there now.
My first memories of working in the city are right in that area. It was great. When I was there, I met Ross Hogarth [Tape Op #50]. He was doing a Stephen Bruton record and they let me hang out on the session. It was cool because I got to see really good musicians…
…and a great engineer.
Yeah. Absolutely. And it's funny because my dad, of all people, is the one that got me that job. He knew a musician that had recorded there. He was like, "You should check this place out." It was because I started working there that I eventually got hired here, because I had some experience at that point with Neve [mixing consoles].
You had kept pestering Jeff here?
Yeah, and then I had to wait for somebody to get fired. [laughter] Jeff's always been good. He'll tell you too, but he was always, even then, trying to hire more women and get people up through the system. So, that was nice.
How did that start out?
We were runners. We would get here, stock the fridges, put bagels in the rooms, and make coffee. You would help set up sessions, if you were smart. Try to learn as much as you could. I think it's a dying art form, and I don't think people see the value in it. Every studio is different – you have to learn your studio. You may have gone to Berklee or Full Sail, but that doesn't mean you know anything about how real sessions are run.
