What's the difference between Speedy Ortiz and Sad13?
It's hard for me to define. I'm always the only songwriter. I think when I first created the Sad13 project to work with Lizzo [on "Basement Queens"], it was, "Here's the pop project that I also produced." Then the intervening Speedy Ortiz record [Twerp Verse] I basically produced, played a lot of the instruments, and did all the synths and drum machines at home. It had a lot of the pop characteristics of the first Sad13 record [Slugger].
For Haunted Painting I composed everything. I produced it, and I'm the primary musician. I guess that's the difference. I'm the songwriter for both projects, but certainly Speedy is a bit more collaborative, depending on who's on the record and who we're working with as engineers.
I know Speedy Ortiz started as a project led by you.
The very first Speedy Ortiz thing I did in 2011 was because I love home recording and had grown up doing a bunch on one of the Tascam Portastudios, using GarageBand, and taking recording classes in college. I was in a band for a long time with someone who was in school for recording engineering, so it got taken off my plate and I missed it. The first Speedy record [The Death of Speedy Ortiz] was me playing and recording everything in the most terrible, lo-fi way possible, which, in hindsight, I find charming. I wanted an outlet for doing something where I got to play all the instruments. If it sounded bad, at least I'd know it was my fault and not my inability to communicate with whoever's tracking it. As Speedy Ortiz started taking gigs, the friends who were playing these songs live became my bandmates. We did a bunch of records together in a shifting lineup, but mostly the same people. While I love them, I created Speedy Ortiz as an outlet for my home recording and then immediately trashed it in favor of letting someone else record, mix, play drums and bass, and whatever else.
I see what you mean.
I started Sad13 in 2016 because I again missed home recording and wanted an excuse to do it. As I've gotten more and more into it, it becomes harder for me to want to relinquish any control. I have the feeling the next Speedy album might be more collaborative than anything we've done in the past. I'm often making the bulk of the production choices. I got really deep in on the Sad13 record, and I've been doing a lot of projects from home. Whenever it's safe to work together again, maybe I'll be a better collaborator and more interested in letting someone else have a say.
How did your skills improve while working on the new Sad13 record?
I always fall backwards into learning how to get better at anything. I'm averse to reading instructions, so I do something the way that seems obvious to me – which is probably the worst way to do it – and then I have to learn how to fix it. Even the first Sad13 record [Slugger], I thought I was making demos and then got deeper and deeper into trying to make them sound better. It's somewhat similar on this project. I recorded the whole thing at home and then went into different studios to redo different parts, track by track. I viewed every session I've worked on as an internship, as much as it is hiring someone to work on my project. I admire that many people are able to mix remotely, but I have to be in the room. I want to see everything that's happening, as well as the degree to which a knob is being turned, so that I not only know how to come back from that but also how to get to that place next time. Every session, I'm always in the room, pretty silent for the bulk of the mixing until I come out with my 50 notes that I need to work back from. I've been picking skills up from sessions for the past decade. I feel grateful to have been able to track and mix with so many amazing people that I've been able to steal tiny secrets from
I know you worked with John Agnello [Tape Op #14], a wonderful, talented guy.
Yeah, he's great.
Who else have you worked with?
The first thing that Speedy, as a full band, ever did was with Paul Kolderie [Tape Op #22], which was pretty cool. He was a fan of my old band, and he offered us some free studio time. Then those songs got mixed by Justin Pizzoferrato. I've done a few projects with him; we have such a great working rapport and friendship. I've certainly learned a lot from Justin. Whenever I have a question about something, he's helpful. On the last Speedy Ortiz record [Twerp Verse], Mike Mogis [#51] mixed it. We spent more time mixing than tracking. He's one of the few people I've allowed to kick me out of the room. It was frustrating, but I get it. I've been listening to his records since I was a little kid. He's one of the first producers I remember knowing by name.
What sonic elements was he bringing that you wouldn't even have guessed?
A lot of running signals out and using a lot of pedals that I wouldn't have expected to run overheads through. I use the EarthQuaker [Devices] Rainbow Machine all the time on guitar and synths. He was putting it on drums and a single delay of a backing vocal. He has a world-class board and all kinds of equipment, but he's using all kinds of fun gear, from cheap to priceless. I think that has inspired me to use a lot of what I would consider my guitar pedals on other instruments.
Sylvia Massy [Tape Op #63] had mixed something for the first Sad13 record – I had this cockamamie idea that I was going to have a different person mix every song.
Oh my god!
I know. I had to throw out a Sylvia Massy mix and a Tony Lash mix. Joey Waronker mixed a song. They sounded so all over the place compared to one another. They were all engineers who I really wanted to work with, at least. I've never worked with someone who I haven't had a long, friendly conversation with first. I started learning guitar when I was 13, and I was lucky to go to a summer camp that had a recording studio. I started going in and making EPs when I was 14 in a little digital studio. I think I was eventually able to say, "Here's what I like, and here's how it should sound." It prepped me for being able to do this as a career, and to say, "Absolutely, no. I do not want that effect. Let's try this instead." I think a lot of people get thrown into recording in their early 20s, have never had to defend the way they hear music, and can feel intimidated by it. Your ears are what you should trust, even if you don't have years of experience.
For Haunted Painting, were you demoing drum patterns with the virtual drummer in Logic, and then rebuilding those with actual drums later?
Yeah. I tend to "type" out the drums. I'll write the parts that way. Sometimes we keep a lot of those, or run them through a LinnDrum, or I'll trigger other samples. I have a great drummer, Zoë Brecher, who is the drummer on this record and was also the live drummer for Sad13 (when touring was something we could do). She's one of those absolute freaks of nature who can hear something and then immediately recreate it. I send her the stems of what I wrote, and she'll learn it. If it's not playable by a human, we'll accomplish it with overdubs.
There's that one section in "Ruby Wand" that's got the craziest exploding drums.
She's playing some stupid MIDI that I wrote, although she made it much better and more sensical than what I did.
