I first heard of you when you were in the band, The Belle Brigade, with your sister Barbara [Gruska]. The production and songwriting were amazing. Then I realized all these common threads between you, Blake, and Shawn. Can you talk about the influence you all had on each other, at that stage?
I was 18 when Barb and I started doing the band. She invited me in. She said, "Alright, your songs are getting good enough. Let's be a band." She was playing in Jenny Lewis's band at the time, on a tour, which I did merch for, actually. I was terrible at it. But she was playing with some people, including Blake. When we made our first record, she had him come in. I knew of him and was a total super fan. Then Blake introduced us to Shawn and Tony [Berg], very slowly. Blake is definitely a central figure in that early part, and still is. We made our first record, [The Belle Brigade] where he played guitar. Matthew Wilder produced the first one – great guy; super talented dude. Blake came in and did three days where we said, "We just want to watch you play!" He was doing the craziest shit, and we were all obsessed. Then we comped through it.
Did his playing influence where the record went?
Hugely. We were on a path, and then Blake came in. The analogy that me and my sister give is that everybody has their palette of paints, and Blake is like the color wheel in Photoshop. It was our first experience of watching him do that. Because he was only in there for a couple of days, he probably didn't feel he was a big part of it, but he was. He launched us into a new place to run with. The second album [Just Because] was produced by us and Shawn Everett.
Where did you record both of those records?
For the first Belle Brigade record, we did the first two weeks at Capitol Studios doing basic tracks. It fucked me up, because it wasn't reality-based. We got so lucky that we got a record deal when we were young, before we even had anything out. Now, I would have never done it that way. You've gotta find out who you are first! We took all the basics to Matthew Wilder's place, which was out in Malibu at the time. We would drive out to Malibu every day. His house was gorgeous; a beautiful view of the ocean, and we would work there all day.
Took a little pressure off of watching the clock at Capitol?
Definitely. We felt like family at the time. He really took us in, in a great way. That was a crazy experience.
Then Michael Brauer [Tape Op #131] mixed it?
Yeah. It was so not DIY. So I had to relearn the DIY thing. But it all feeds into each other.
I take it that experience was pretty different from the second record, working with Shawn?
Totally, yes. Shawn is a force of his own. With Shawn, I feel I really learned how to have fun. I mean, I was having fun before, but he insists that it has to be fun. I have to be inspired and feel like I'm searching or experimenting.
Nothing's precious.
No. It's not like we've got to come up with a part. I remember, on the second day we were over there, he said, "Okay, we're going to record these long loops and put one on each fader. They're all going to be totally psycho different, and then we're going to play the board."
That makes so much sense, when you hear the record. I remember hearing it and thinking, "How did these guys make this?"
It's Shawn! He'd have a way of getting our ideas down, but with a completely different process that felt totally new to everybody. We made that entire record at Tony's old studio, Zeitgeist. That was a beautiful experience. We were on and off all the time, because we were touring a little bit, and also Shawn was in the middle of tons of work. I'm so happy seeing how the entire world now is like, "I want to work with that guy." He brings out the joy of creation in you.
What led to you starting your solo career at what seemed to be the peak of The Belle Brigade?
We were working so hard on the road, and all eggs had to be in this one basket. I think that both of us, without any bad blood at all, were like, "I want to diversify!" Even though it was what we both wanted, I hadn't started anything yet. There were a couple of weeks where I was like, "Fuck! I spent years putting everything into this, and now it's over. I'm happy, but also I don't know what to do." Then I had a little epiphany. I had been writing these piano songs. The original idea was to make a record of short, 2-minute piano pieces. I had gotten an upright piano with a felt mute. I went and played maybe six or seven songs for Tony Berg, who I had met through working at his house, as well as family connections. He gives very sage advice. I didn't even go there thinking he would have time to produce it, or that we would work together. At the end of the day he said, "Let's do this, right?" I was totally surprised. I think he was doing an Andrew Bird record at the time, so we had to wait a little bit; but it gave me time to write six or seven more [songs]. On all the Belle Brigade sessions, I was so young and felt it was a whirlwind. Meeting Tony, and working on my solo record, I felt it started to come into focus a little bit. It was really pivotal for me. Then Tony introduced me to so many people, and got me starting to produce.
Did you and Tony co-produce that record?
No. I mean, it was very collaborative. Tony was being so good to me; he was letting us do it on spec because I had no deal. [His wife] Cary was cooking me dinner every night. I was just an artist who had an opinion, but it was produced by Tony. He helped me with a lot of decisions.
Like what?
A lot of those songs on that record are sung and played at the same time. I remember the first couple of days, he was saying, "Slow it down. Don't explore with your voice. Sing the song." He would focus me in. I think I have a tendency to want to color everything in. He helped me be more defined and have a more specific palette. Also, sonically, he taught/retaught me how to be more inviting and to lean in a little bit. I learned so much in that process. Then he started bringing me in as a player on sessions, which then led to co-producing records with him.
Like co-producing the Phoebe Bridgers record, Stranger in the Alps?
Yeah. We had finished my record, found a home for it, and then Tony would bring me in. During the Slowmotionary record, I was starting to discover all my gadgets, like my [Teenage Engineering] OP-1 and my [Critter & Guitari] Kaleidoloop. There were little hints of those on the record, as well as reversing shit.
The backwards sounds are so cool. I steal that all the time now.
Those are sounds that have been around forever, but I was thinking, "Oh, that's a cool thing for me to incorporate into what I do." I'm not somebody who can come in on a session and play like Larry Goldings [pianist]. I don't have those kind of chops. But Tony would bring me in on sessions because he was into where I would go with ideas.
That's surprising to hear. Your piano arrangements sound really deep and complex. Were those very thought-out beforehand?
Yeah. There's a Leonard Cohen interview where he says, "I have one chop." I feel that way. I can do my thing, but if you take me out of my comfort zone I need a second. Now I feel a lot more comfortable coming in on anything, but back then I was really nervous. By Tony bringing me in as a player, I learned how to adapt and learn a song quickly. It improved my retention and knowledge. As that continued, he was working on some demos with Phoebe for the record they were making. Tony said, "Come in! Check out this artist; she's awesome. She's 19 and writing these lyrics." I think Phoebe heard a record Tony had made and was into what he was doing. Tony brought me in and we spent two or three days with me as a player. It gelled in a way where the workflow started moving faster. I insisted on using all of these new toys that I had found. That started bringing a little bit more of a collage element to the record that was maybe a bit more straight-ahead, band-oriented. Being asked to be a part of that was a huge thing for me. Not only did she deliver incredible songs, but she worked her ass off. We all made a great record together.
What roles do you and Tony play as co-producers? You obviously bring something to the table that he finds valuable.
Yeah. Now that I've been mentored by him, I've assumed a little bit of a Tony voice in my head. For me, that's usually to strip away and find the center of the song. I feel more and more proficient at adding guitars, keyboards, and arranging and building a track. "Do whatever you want; throw a ton of paint at it." And then he'll say, "Okay. You stumbled on an idea. Let's focus more on that." Those were the really early times where I knew how to catch a vibe, but I didn't know how to solidify a thought. Tony was really instrumental in that way. It's pure collaboration.
I've heard that you use Pro Tools almost like an instrument. You record a ton of playlists and then comp and create a wild performance. Is that true?
Yeah. I'm a comping fiend. I get made fun of a lot for that over there [at Sound City]. I love going through 30 playlists of nonsense. I love the four milliseconds that I find. Those define everything for me. It originally came from the early session playing where I didn't know exactly what I was doing, "I'm going to play and then come back and fix it." Now it's, "I'm going to get out all these different ideas, and then I'm going to see what a collage of them would look like." Sometimes I'll do seven passes and then comp that before moving on. A lot of times, with the sampling that I do, it'll be different. The Mellotron has all these sound effects. And the iPad has unbelievable granular synthesis, like touchscreen playable apps. There's also the Kaleidoloop and the OP-1. All these amazing, different versions of sampling. I don't know if I should say this, but I'll smoke a joint and spend seven hours putting randomness down and muting it all. Then I come in the next day and start sifting through it.
Write drunk, edit sober.
Exactly!
Do you ever get into Elastic Audio for manipulating the sounds you've already recorded?
Definitely, but I'm only recently now getting knowledgeable about Elastic Audio. It's so cool! I would say I'm just trying to get a good signal when recording at home. When I'm working with Will [Maclellan] or Joseph [Lorge] at Sound City, I have a lot of trust in them. If they want to chase a sound going in, I'll be there with them, 100 percent. Both are extremely talented guys. Let's say I'm working on a project here at my place; I'm not getting extraordinary sounds going in, but I then spend a lot of time in the box manipulating them and then printing them. That's how I intended to record it, but I don't necessarily have the outboard tools to do that, nor the space or the room. For me, it's that idea of recording it and then committing it, like it was always meant to sound that way.
Let's talk about your recent record, En Garde, because it's bonkers.
It is! It's not even a record.
What would you call it?
