What is your role as far as the technical aspects of recording go?
Most of the records that I produce I don't engineer. I'm pretty involved in the mix. I've worked with several people over the years... I really believe in producer and engineer being two separate jobs and if one guy is doing both of those things that one of those jobs is suffering. And I work with bands...I really love bands...and when you work with bands, it's not so much...sitting in there with one person overdubbing all the time. That kind of thing a guy could be engineering and producing but what my specialty is...I like to work with bands, I really respect bands. I think the way most record companies...ya know, they go to see a band play and they love the band, then they sign the band and they put the band in a recording studio with a guy who starts overdubbing them one at a time. It really reminds me of the police interrogation. Where the three kids get arrested for writing graffiti on a wall and they take 'em into an individual room, one at a time and hopefully their stories will match up. That's what the overdub process reminds me of. "Didn't you fall in love with this band because you saw them play and sing at the same time?!" It's really hard for me to understand. That answer's probably pretty wide and all over the place...I learned about engineering I think the way a lot of people do-from having a 4-track and breaking it down to the basic elements of recording which are, to me, EQ, compression, delay and reverb and putting the signal on tape. If a person can learn those things then you've pretty much demystified the whole process. And everything...comes from there.
Did you learn about the technical aspects of recording when you were in the studio as a musician with the Del-Lords in the '80s?
A little bit...I was in Joan Jett and the Blackhearts and then the Del-Lords, and being in bands in the '80s it was kinda the dark years of recording guitars. There's, uh...
...a lot of buried guitar...
...yeah...like here we were with the major label record deal and we're in there, in an expensive studio in LA and our money is being used by some engineer who's trying to figure out how to run the big Lexicon 240-whatever and I really vowed that I would someday be in charge of this thing so that wouldn't happen to me or the people I was working with.
So, it was you, the band, and an engineer, no producer?
No, there was a producer. He was excited about that big Lexicon box too.
How did you get hooked up with the producers that you worked with in the '80s?
With the Del-Lords, our first record was made with this guy, Lou Whitney from the band called The Morells which became The Skeletons and I still work with him to this day. This guy has a studio in Springfield, Missouri [The Studio]. His band backs a lot of people, like they back Syd Straw and Dave Alvin and Jonathan Richman, myself...a lot of different people on their solo records. That guy did the first [Del-Lords] record then the next couple we did with Neil Geraldo, who's Pat Benatar's husband and producer/guitar player. Great guy...something that I'll say fairly often is "The rule is there is no rule". One of the subheadings under that is "What worked for the last guy may not work for the next guy". He was applying what he was doing with [Pat] to us. In hindsight I don't think it was the best way to deal with a rock band.
So how did you start producing?
In the '80s I started seeing some bands around here. There was an afterhours bar called No Se No down on Rivington St...an unlicensed place...and the Del-Lords were already kinda happening, we had a coupla records out, and I started seeing these young bands and following some advice from Lou Whitney...if you got a band and you wanna record, one of the most basic things that you could do is find somebody who's already done it to help you. I'd already been 4-trackin' at home and I just knew that I could help. I have a background in music in that I took piano lessons as a kid and I played trumpet from 5th grade all the way through college at the University of Wyoming. At the same time I taught myself guitar. There's a lot of skills that, even coming out of the punk rock era when training was not so groovy, the training that I received helped me a lot in being able to help bands with their arrangements and hooking up harmonies and stuff. So I started producing some of these bands from No Se No like the World Famous Bluejays and The Clintons. My own personal goal was to try to make the bands sound better than they were and make the recordings sound like it cost a lot more than it did. Make the bands sound better with them doing everything, not with...me or somebody else playing everything.
What did you grow up listening to?
Well, I will be 42, I'm of that era where...you have to have graduated from high school somewhere in between '74 and '76...Those are the only people that will tell you that they really like Grand Funk. When I grew up it was AM radio in Chicago so you had WLS and WCFL and...it would be like The Stones and The Kinks and The Who and The Beatles, and if one song sucked you'd just punch the button and go to the next station. So it was a lot of those really great records, that sort of AM radio and the beginning of FM...I think Creedence was one of the first bands that you could actually, without a lot of trickery...make yourself sound like... The Grand Funk thing is kinda funny, because Grand Funk...were...I mean, it's a joke to say they were an American band but they were an American band when this English thing was really dominating. And they were kinda like a hard rock Creedence. They were like a hard rock band, but you could...successfully play their songs and sound like them. It was exciting.
So from listening to that how did you get into the whole roots rock revival of the '80s?
That was real simple. The stuff that I like and the stuff that I still like...I don't know about roots or country or blues or anything, but most of the songs that I like and most of the bands that I work with-their songwriting takes place on the guitar. And there's natural stuff that comes from writing songs on the guitar. Like when I was a kid and you're listening to The Beatles, when The Beatles went from their guitar songs to the piano songs...with the descending bass note...that to me is when it got not-so rock and roll. So if there's any generalization, that would be it. I really love the guitar. Also in the '80s when you had people playing synthesizers and stuff...it's so same-y sounding. But you can...plug a Les Paul in a Marshall and have ten people play it and it'll sound different...and that's not the case with the electric keyboard really. That's why I really love the guitar and what it can do.
Who are some people that you're listening to now?
Well, I work on music a lot. I work with bands and the producer job, it's a very difficult job. Sometimes I don't get to listen to enough music.
What were the last five CDs you bought?
Well, I got the new Tom Petty record and I...went out looking for the new Tom Waits record but they didn't have it so I bought myself a copy of T-Rex Electric Warrior which I didn't have on CD. I bought it when it was new when I was in junior high but I really like that. I was really surprised, I liked the new Richard Buckner Since-I think it's called...Oh! And I love this Houndog record! Have you heard that? David Hidalgo and the guy from Canned Heat...Mike I think his name is... [Mike Halby] It's really creepy...it sounds like...Don & Dewey and...Jimmy Reed only slowed down...I think David Hidalgo...is probably the most musical guy of my generation...It's really good, it's really wacked out. He's got like an 8-track cassette rig...he's got the Fostex version of my old rig which is a Tascam 688. I think that they did this thing on a cassette machine...
...lot of tape hiss?
...yeah...and slowed down stuff. They have their picture in what looks to be a real control room, but I think they're fakin' us out!...it could be...And I've just recently...been working on this apartment, my wife and I moved in here and I just recently set up my spot and I've listened to more music in the last week than I have in the last year.
What speakers are you using to listen to new stuff?
It's funny...People complain about Yamaha NS-10s. I think that they're among the best home stereo speakers. They really do sound great. And then I bought myself these little cheap Radio Shack Optimus deals for my desk. The Optimus 3 or Pro 33 or something...I got 'em on my desk and I've just been enjoying it like crazy!
Not a lot of low end?
Well, the low end is coming from the floor. I don't have subs...I recently had a positive experience with subs. I mixed the Bottle Rockets record with this guy Paul Ebersold in Memphis at Ardent. Ardent is a big facility, been there for a long time. They got some really nice rooms. Every one of their rooms has Yamaha NS-10s and a Yamaha powered consumer subwoofer. And I'm telling you the Yamahas...if they aren't trying to do what they can't do, which is reproduce below 60 or 80...if they're not trying to go down there, they sounded fantastic! I couldn't believe it. I mean I came in there and this guy started playing me this stuff and I thought the bigs were on...and it was the Yamahas with the powered sub.
Did the sub have a crossover in it?
Yeah, it has a crossover and basically the only controls on this thing...it was very bonehead- friendly...which is why we're talking to Tape Op. It had just volume and the crossover frequencies so you could pick. And at Ardent they had it crossed over at 80 and you just dial in enough volume.
What do you think one of those things runs for?
Not very much. I think it's probably under 500 bucks. I got the Yamahas at home 10 or 15 years ago because...I wanted to get my ears acclimated to the way that I would be listening all the time anyway...
...other than room acoustics...
...yeah...They don't really sound great until they're turned way up and that can wear you down.
Do you listen to yours loud or low?
At home?
mm hmm.
Not that loud. In the studio, whatever it takes for the inspiration to happen.
How do you approach recording conceptually? Sonically? Do artists approach you? Do you approach them? Or both?
