First I talked to John
All these great records have come out of Tucson that you've been a part of. Is Giant Sand sort of the hub of the wheel of projects so to speak (OP8, Calexico, Giant Sand)?
I've heard other people use this word a lot, like Howe especially: reinvention. I think as a way of being able to survive as a musician you have to be able to reinvent what you do. If I scale it down to what I do as a drummer... if I set my drums up different or use a different drum set or even if I just turn a cymbal upside down it will just automatically make me think and play a different way. With that same concept if it reverberates out and you do something as drastic as change the name of the band even, it's going to totally change what you do. I think Giant Sand kind of centered around what Howe would bring to the table and Joey and I would add our ingredients to the dinner. OP8 was originally Howe, Joey and I experimenting with different ways of putting songs together. You know I'm playing vibes now and accordion, and Joey's playing guitar more now. So it was branching out on different instruments. Then Lisa Germano jumped in there and it became a whole record.
How did Lisa get involved?
Her record company at the time was wanting their artists to work with different musicians. Since we met her in New Orleans, when we (Giant Sand) were doing the Glum record, we all got along really well. So when the label challenged her to work with other people she said "I wanna work with the Giant Sand guys." Her label didn't really like what she was doing with us so that freed us up to finish it, do a whole record and then shop it around. That, consequently, got the V2 [records] thing going for Giant Sand.
So I heard the new OP8 is not going to be with Lisa Germano?
The idea was to try and bring in different people. To leave it more open.
You and Joey seem like the dream session players for so much stuff. You did the Barbara Manning and the Richard Buckner records. Do you promote yourself as session players?
No, it just pretty much happens. If a person hears something they like and they think we can work with us they contact us. Although there are people I'd love to work with like Chan from Cat Power. I really like that record (Moon Pix). I think she would be a great OP8 candidate. I'd love to work with Lisa again but it's hard with schedules. It's hard to force these things. You kind of have to allow them to happen. That's like the first OP8 record. It's weird when things get forced and expectations get put on it. It ruins it.
The new album that you just did... did you write stuff like you always have in Giant Sand or more like "reinvention" of an old band?
I think Howe really had to dig deep and go into different more territories than he has before because he was working with a major label. I think they were wanting something more specific than Giant Sand has ever had to come up with. More radio friendly. For me personally it was a more difficult thing for me.
In the recording process?
Yeah. There were ideas that I had that weren't really able to happen because we were working with a producer and on a major label. It just wasn't as free. The label (V2) put up a budget. It's all in the contracts. The studio and the producers all have to be approved by both sides: the band and the label.
Your Calexico records came out on Quarterstick, an indie label.
Yeah totally independent, practically no budget.
You're able to have total freedom when you record something. How do you feel about having more money to record?
With Glum (Giant Sand) it was neat because we got to go to New Orleans (Kingsway Studio) and live in the studio and work with really good mics and a really good engineer and get good sounds. That was a great experience. That was when big budget worked for Giant Sand. Then it was kind of interesting. The day our record was done our A & R person got fired and the label kind of went bankrupt. Even though the record didn't get promoted very well, at least we didn't have to pay back that huge budget.
What did you spend on Glum?
I don't know, $75,000. For us that was big. Mostly, just being able to be in that big house there in that French quarter, living there. When you woke up in the morning and you stumbled down the stairs and there was your drum set all mic'ed up and the engineer was already buzzed on three cups of coffee and ready to go. It was great. I think with this new Giant Sand record it was fractured because we never really had that place. We recorded some of it in Memphis, some in Tucson, some at home. it was more mixed up. Ultimately it is going to present a very interesting and diverse sounding record.
You and Joey did the first Calexico record, Spoke, and the new one, The Black Light, yourselves right?
Yeah. Craig (Schumacher, of Wavelab) helps a lot. Even with the Spoke record, although we recorded at our houses, we took it to Wavelab and threw a lot of stuff into ProTools and did editing.
How do you feel about ProTools? You know digital editing and using computers?
I think it's great. It's exactly what it is, a tool, you know. Another way of helping things along. You just have to not let it be a master of you. For me I just want things to sound real. You gotta have that feel to it. Psychologically it took me awhile to come to grips with the digital world. It's so weird that the music is going into these boxes. Like with the Glum record, the engineer, she did most of the editing on the 2-inch tape right there. With a razor blade. She would be tapping her foot and slice the tape. It's hairy but I dug it. I loved the reality and the instantaneous of it all. There is a margin of error there. The digital world is super clean.
Yeah I just bought a computer a couple of months ago. It'd be cool to be able to store mixes.
Yeah and I like being able to loop things too. There's those accidents that actually wind up being the coolest part of a song and you can build a song out of that. Even if it is just looping it to remember it.
In terms of the records you've played drums on, there is a definite link between all the recordings and the sounds of the drums. The drums are totally unique but they have a "feel". I like to A/B the OP8 and Calexico records a lot when I'm mixing. I associate the recordings of those records mostly with your drumming and the drum sounds.
Well, it could be the sound, the actual sound of the drum set. That has something to do with it. But I think more than anything it's capturing performances. And this is something we've all learned from Howe more than anybody. The way he plays and the way he comes up with his music is very in the moment. And if you don't capture that moment it's pretty much gone. A lot of the stuff that was recorded at Wavelab, whether it was by Nick (the engineer) or Craig they were astute enough to tell when something was happening, really happening, when the band was playing and to press that fricken' record button. You know? It would be like I'd go out to the drums, Howe's startin' to play guitar and Craig would go "Oh this is happening" and he'll press record. Instead of saying "Let's tape this. let's make this a take." Stopping the band. A lot of engineers make the mistake of going "Wow that was great, let's take one." Then it's gone. You can try a go again the same way and it just does not work. It's bizarre, the whole sound, the physical sound of the drums and everything starts changing.
Would Craig be rolling tape all the time?
Yeah. Sometimes he would have a DAT going. Something un-tangible happens. I think John Coltrane may have said it once: "You will always play different when the tape is rolling." When we were recording the Glum record Malcom Burn would say " Yeah that was great do it again." And we just couldn't. I would think I'm a lame-ass drummer. I can't come up that grove we were just playing. A lot of times a producer won't take no for an answer and you'll spend the whole night working on the song and it's really just a waste of time.
Are you good at knowing when that's happening?
No. I'm not. There were times when I thought a take was really good and it sucked. In that Memphis session (for the new Giant Sand record), we did a take, then did a second take, then a third. And we all agreed that the second take was the best. Then the engineer rewound the tape and went past the second take and we were listening to the first take. We were all going this doesn't sound like the second take but we were all diggin' it. It was a happy accident. We listened to the second take and it really sucked.
So do you and Joey both have studios in your house?
No. I'd like to. The Spoke record was done on 8-track that the Friends of Dean Martinez had bought. It was in Joey's apartment for awhile and then in mine. Just two microphones. This house I'm living in now has an amazing sound. It's got 14 foot ceilings, all stucco inside. It s just a regular brick house. It has this weird hallway, you know? Rooms with lots of doorways leading into this hallway with this high ceiling. Lots of room for notes, sounds, to go off into a little corner and circulate. You put mics around in different corners.
The drum sounds, specifically the kick, are all so similar. You can tell it's the same drummer. But there seems to be a specific mic approach too. Is it something you picked up from Craig or is it the way you like to hear your kit?
I got into this thing where I didn't want to have anything in my drum. I got this Ludwig kit about twelve years ago that has this sound. I think it has something to do with the fact the the shells are thin. When you hear the Ludwig, the bass drum opens up. It's an open sound. You're hearing like this subsonic reverberation. You're feeling it more than you're hearing. It's just a double headed bass drum with no hole cut in it. I think a lot of it has to do with heads too, made in the 60s.
Does a lot of that sound come from the warehouse at Wavelab?
Yeah it's a great sounding room. And in the house here too, it sounds really good. There are some things about that Spoke record that I like better. More open. You hear the air.
The drums sound incredible on the first song on the Buckner "Devotion and Doubt" record. Especially the kick.
Yeah I think that was a first or second take. You have to give Craig credit too. He would just go with that. He's got a lot of enthusiasm and energy. If it's not happening he'll just move mics around and put them in different parts of the room. He's not like "Take the front head off, blah, blah, blah."
Experimenting is good.
