How are you doing, Manny?
It's always great to be here. I get here, meet these guys, and remember this is why I do it. It's fun. When I was growing up we didn't have this. Guys were very closed up. There was no sharing of information. They called it "secrets." It seems like today there are no secrets. I figure that as a mixer it's a level playing field. We all have the same plug-ins. It's not really about the equipment that we're using; it's about your taste, your gut, your heart and soul. I think that people are becoming more comfortable talking about it. Programs like this, and magazines like yours; those are how we keep it going. This is our little subculture that we want to hold on to, and hopefully help someone achieve what their full potential is.
I look at GarageBand, and I think if I were a teenager today that I'd feel so lucky. When I was young I wanted more than my 2-track cassette recorder.
When I was in high school I saved every penny just to get a 4-track. You can get anything now and be producing music at any age. I'm extremely lucky that I came at the time I did, going from tape with big budgets. We used to spend a week getting drum tones!
Auditioning snares.
Yeah, like ten or twenty different snares with different combinations of mics and rooms. Then making that transition from tape to Pro Tools. That transition unfortunately killed a lot of careers. We're creatures of habit; we didn't want to change. I'm so happy that I have knowledge of that to take to this new generation. Just from learning as an assistant to mic a kit, it gave me so much confidence and knowledge of how to EQ things and how to listen.
Earlier today you discussed how to layer samples for a kick drum. If we were dealing with a live drummer, we'd be finding a way to get that sound from the kit. But here you are trying to make that sound by sculpting these layers.
Exactly. Nowadays when people send me sessions to mix and they have a bunch of horns, they're usually all zeroed out in the session. I'm like, "Why did you do that?" Back in the day we'd track the horns, and the producer would be in the room saying, "A little more trumpet." That's part of production. You bounce it to two tracks. Nowadays they're like, "No, we want to see what you can do with them." I'm like, "What do you mean? You did the work already that you like. Why would I have to redo everything you've already done?" It's probably going to sound the same. I feel like we're still in the Wild West of how to send proper sessions to people to mix.
They come in all kinds of different shapes.
My poor assistants spend so long just organizing. Sometimes people will send stuff that's not even the right song. Hopefully someday those will be the good old days.
Currently you work out of Larrabee Sound Studios [in Los Angeles]?
Yep. It's a great place. It's one of the best studios in the world. When I was beginning, I always wanted to have a room at Larrabee, because all the guys I looked up to had a room there at some point. I've been there for about 15 years now, and it's worked really well. They've got different rooms where they have a G, Duality, and a K [SSL consoles]. If I want to do some grimy stuff with the G, or some poppy, cleaner stuff, I'll go to the Duality.
You can book rooms as needed?
Exactly. It's really cool and unique. I just haven't been able to do the whole in-the-box [mix] thing. I don't know if I ever will. I'm still old school, using the desk just like when I started. I grew up watching guys "perform" mixes. That's what we've been talking about this whole week. Perform a mix, as opposed to visual mixing. I think there's something to be said for both. I've had way better results if I perform it, then fix, and then perform. I keep talking about left brain/right brain and the psychology of what we do, how to get the emotion, and all that stuff. I think sometimes nowadays we forget that. We tend to forget that, at the end of the day, music is about an emotion. That's all. We're selling an emotion. We know that, but we don't really think about it. So sell that emotion!
While doing one of the mixes earlier, you were saying to find something for the listener to keep them hooked.
Yeah, keep them engaged. It's like the push-pull. Walk somebody through the song. Sometimes you let them go, and other times you reel them back in. "I love you. No, I don't love you anymore. I do love you."
Tension and release is a big part of music.
Yeah, it's emotional, utilizing those things. You need to be aware how people react to music. Some productions are better than others. When you hit a wall it could be production, it could be a bad day — whatever it is, how do you get out of that? How do you hopefully get a song sounding the way it was intended? It was in someone's head at some point, right? How do you get that and build it to its fullest potential? I think sometimes we lose track of that.
Do you feel it's almost like archaeology, when you first hear a track that you've been sent to mix?
Absolutely. That's great; I'm going to use that. [laughs]
What's one of the first things you do when you get a new track to mix?
My assistants get it ready for me to mix on the desk.
What does that entail?
We always ask for a rough [mix] that they like. You'd be surprised. They have the wonderful job of going through the rough mixes, going through each section, making sure that all the tracks are there, that they all match what the rough is, and [that it's] the right arrangement. Eight out of ten times, it won't be the same arrangement. You'd be so shocked. We get files that are not ready to be mixed.
Is that because elements are missing?
Missing, or it went to this programmer and this producer; and then they did vocals at this studio, and that studio, or they had disk allocation issues or whatever. And then they send it to us because we have to mix it right away. Sometimes it can take a couple of hours, and other times it can take a few days just to put together. It kind of sucks, because that's time that my guys have to spend.
Do some songs or albums have a project manager to follow along and keep it on track?
Oh man, every project should have that. That's a great idea. I'll sign up for that job, just to get it done right. [Sometimes] they'll have ten roughs. The artist will like one rough, but the label will like another rough. Or they like the demo. Deciphering that is another set of emails.
Are you also using that to gauge what they might be expecting from the mix?
Yeah, maybe. It depends how many roughs they're listening to. The really cool part is when you have one rough that everyone agrees on. Instead I'll have, "Hey, listen to this demo from 2012. Listen to the vibe of that demo. Then listen to this rough from three months ago. We like the way the instrumentation and arrangement is. Then listen to this rough from last week. This is the latest one." You listen to all three roughs, and they're like completely different songs. Where do you go from the demo that only has Rhodes and vocals, and then you have a fully-produced version of that? You know you'll never get back to that. Deciphering this is another part of the process. Once we've done all that, maybe I'll have two roughs. Then we try to combine the two somehow. We get it on the desk, and I come in and start mixing from the desk. At that point, it becomes a creative process for me. At first I just get lost in it. I haven't heard the song the way the artist, producer, and everyone else has been hearing it. I want to capture that raw emotion. Deciphering all that is where the art comes in, where it involves your taste.
Have you ever had sessions where you were asked to mix something, but felt like you were the wrong person for the job?
No, I don't think so. Only because the cocky little 22-year-old in me comes out and says, "No, I can mix it all. Challenge me." I don't care if it's any genre. I'll give it the best that I can. I love challenges, and I think that's really what drives me. There have been records where I'm intimidated by them, but it almost puts me in a weird state of mind where I'm more focused. The more you get comfortable with what we do, that's the moment that you're done. There's a whole line of guys who are ready to take your spot. Being comfortable is not good, but then we need to be comfortable at the same time, because we're creatures of habit. It's like doing yoga. You're holding this really hard pose, but your mind has to be so clear. Your breathing becomes really slow, yet you're holding this tough pose. That contrast is kind of like mixing sometimes. You've got to have your adrenaline going, but yet you've got to be very conscious of what you're doing at all times. You've got to be in control at all times, or else you can go into that deep hole.
Do you have much attended mixing anymore? It's shifted so much over the years.
It's shifted a lot. I would say 50 percent, which is still a high number.
Higher than I expected.
I talked to one guy, and he was like, "Oh, I haven't seen anybody in five months." Maybe it's because I'm so charming that people just want to come and hang out with me! [laughs]
That's it! Do you have a well-stocked fridge?
Yeah, there's a bar and a grill outside, as well as a big parking lot. It's great when they [the client] show up, because we get done quicker. I can see their body language, which tells a lot about how they're listening and what they're thinking.
There will be someone sitting on the couch, and you might have your back to them, but you can feel if they're not liking something.
I'm like, "Okay, that's a flag. Note." It's easier, and it's fun. That's the way I grew up making records, with people in the room. I miss some of that but, at the same time, I don't miss some of the clients who come in and shouldn't really be making mix calls. Honestly, they don't know what they're listening for. I'm still mixing, I'm thinking it's sounding really cool on the [Yamaha] NS-10s, and some clients will be like, "Man, it needs to sound bigger. It just doesn't have any low-end." I forget that I'm on the NS-10s. Then I'm like, "Hold on. Let me play it upstairs." Somewhere with some type of sub [woofer]. It's a completely different experience. They're like, "That sounds so big! The low-end feels so good!" Exactly. What if I said, "Oh, wait. It's not big enough. Maybe I need more low- end?" More of this, more of that. I get insecure, start doing it, and the next thing you know, the mix is gone.
That's part of the game.
It's about training your clients. How are they going to react? Some of these folks shouldn't be coming to the mix to make changes. I'll print a version before they come in, they'll make changes, and they end up undoing 80 percent of the stuff. Then they'll stop showing up at that point. They're like, "No, go ahead. Just send it to me." There are positives and negatives.
You don't want an artist to feel left out, or a producer to get shunted aside.
You're right. Especially producers. "What do you mean I can't come to my mix?" It's not that they can't come to the mix. "Why don't I send it to you first? You can listen to it in your studio, send me notes, and then you can come. Then you hear it in my room, but you know what it sounds like in your room." Stuff like that. Figuring out ways that save time and save on those... not recalls, but those stem updates.
Do you ever discuss what they're listening on at home? That can be an issue.
Yeah, that helps. But, at the end of the day, I trust my room and my ears. Regardless of where they're listening to it, they'll say, "It needs more bass." I'm like, "Are you sure?"
Laptop speakers...
Right? I can't hear the [Roland TR-]808s! "Where are you listening?" "My earbuds." We're adapting. If I distort the 808 and bring it back in, I can actually hear the tone now on the earbuds, and I can get them to sound big on the big monitors. Adapting is key.
Isn't that also a dangerous curve? You can kind of dumb it down so far that you end up with a really shrill mix, or one that's not inviting.
Yeah, I think it's that balance. I'm getting to know the frequency for the earbuds that's not going to destroy the mix, but instead is going to add a little bit. It's weird how we're thinking about stuff like this. In the early days, we didn't think about any of that. We had a whole other set of problems though, like the biasing on the [Studer A]820...
"Which Dolby was that recorded with?"
Or track, "24's SMPTE is leaking way too much." Makes for great stories!
You mixed two Rolling Stones tracks a while back [for the GRRR! collection].
Yeah.
Was that the kind of occasion, like you mentioned earlier, where there's a bit of pressure?
I try not to put pressure on myself. I was super excited because it was their 50th anniversary, as well as the first original tracks in about eight years. Don Was produced it — I love him. It was incredible. It was just so flattering to get that call. I'm a fan of their music, so for me it was a dream come true. I had worked with them on the recording end when I was working with Babyface back in the day [Bridges to Babylon]. But to be able to mix it and see their names on the desk, it was pretty amazing. I was just excited. Talk about adrenaline! My thing was like, "How would I like to hear the Stones as a fan in 2013?" I kind of went for that. I thought it was pretty cool. It still had the integrity of what they are. Then we did a remix with Jeff Bhasker, which has a more contemporary sound. But still, the Don Was sound and his produced songs, they had that energy.
Was it amazing to solo the drums and listen to that feel?
Oh man, yeah. There are a few moments in your career when you can honestly pinch yourself and think, "Whoa, how did I end up here? They're going to walk in and kick me out. Done! Time's up, kid!"
How many tracks was a session like that?
You know, it was pretty straightforward. It was just drums, bass, and a couple guitars. It was pretty basic. Sometimes songs that have less tracks are harder to mix. There's a lot more room to hear mistakes, as well as [room] to fill. It was just exciting to be on that. I treated it really aggressively. I tried to go for it. Luckily they liked it. That was amazing.
Do you know if the tracks were sent to other mixers at the same time?
I'm not sure. I don't know. Nowadays it's like, "Let's get three guys to mix it and see who wins."
I noticed earlier that you were mixing songs part by part. Is that something you always do? Starting with the loudest chorus?
Yes, exactly. I'm trying to mix really hot, so I get the loudest section of the song and work backwards. I feel like once you've got that, it's easier to bring it down as opposed to the other way around. I'd start with a verse and get it really slamming and hot, but then I'd have no more headroom. I'll listen to the rough, and find the loudest section. If it's a ballad, or an R&B kind of track that's more linear, it doesn't matter. If it's a very dynamic track, I'll go straight for that loud section. Your kick and guitar tones sound completely different than they would in the verse. That's when I start popping EQs and giving things a different treatment.
To facilitate something like that, do you have your assistants break the song into sections?
No. I do it on the fly, as needed. I keep preaching about "as needed." If it doesn't need it, then I leave it there. If it doesn't give me the same vibe on the verses as it did in the chorus, then what's the problem? Isolate the problem. That's when I either pop an EQ in or out, mult it, or chop it up and do it myself. It's so easy and quick to do anyway. My assistants are trying to set up other sessions.
It sounds like a busy place.
It's cool. It's busy, but it's a good time. It's a time that I'll look back on. I'm trying to enjoy every moment, because it could disappear like that, I'm sure.
Looking through your discography, it seems like a hell of a lot of output.
